Codex Replaced Claude for Me… Here’s Why

2026 has been the year of AI agents. All of these agent companies have been releasing update after update, and it's getting very hard to follow. And today, we're going to cover it all.

In the past 4 months, OpenClaw has become the fastest growing open-source software in history, causing a Mac Mini shortage. Anthropic has launched over 50 new features, trying to build out their new claw desktop app. OpenAI has launched Codeex which is quickly becoming my favorite platform for both vibe coding and knowledge work and now SpaceX is kind of acquiring Cursor to compete with all of them.

Today I'm joined by my friend and creator/software engineer Ross Mike to talk about all of these advancements and what it all means. Ross Mike is one of the best educators on YouTube and has an inside perspective on what's going on in AI and software engineering in general.

In this video, we first talk about what a super app is and why all the big labs are building the same thing. We talk about how Anthropic is starting to lose the lead on OpenAI. We talk about Claude Code, Codeex, and OpenClaw. We talk about computer use and browser use. And we also talk about agentic payments. And we end by talking about AI image models and the future of knowledge work.

If you like videos like these, make sure to hit that subscribe button. We make videos just like this every single week. It helps me out a ton. Let's not waste any more time. Let's dive into the conversation.

So, today we're going to be doing uh a little bit of a review, right? It is we are 4 months into 2026. It feels like 10 years has gone by.

>> Yep.

>> You know, Q1, January, February, March,

>> now we're in April.

>> Now we're in April. I feel like Q1 belonged to Anthropic. If you think about it, literally it felt like every day from when they I think it was like January 10th when they launched co-work up until like the end of March, they were launching a new feature every single day.

>> And it's just been so much to keep up with. During that whole period, there was the whole open claw craze. Everyone on my Instagram feed, they were buying Mac min,

>> you know, I can't get one. I still can't get one.

>> Yeah. And honestly, there was people saying that like Mac Minis are going to sell out. And I was like, there's no way they're going to sell out. They were sold Like it's really hard to get them.

>> It's hard to get them. You know, I've heard there's like two month wait list for them

>> in Canada. Toronto, it's 3 months.

>> So like I don't even want to buy one. Like what's the point if I have to wait

>> month? Yeah. Might as wait for the next version. Yeah. And so yeah, we had that whole open claw craze and then obviously you have like you know some other companies coming in like Perplexity Computer. Um and then now we have the tool that I've been having the most fun with which is Codeex released. And I think the common theme is AI agents are starting to get really good at using a computer, you know, whether that is, you know, through computer use on codecs or they're just really good at manipulating files and controlling a computer. And so,

>> yeah, I guess what are your thoughts on 2026 so far? What has been like the highlight? Talk to me.

>> Yeah, so I think like we were just saying this off pod like Opus 45 was the inflection for me. I think that model and it didn't happen right away as soon as it dropped. Like I feel like it took like a week or two when we all collectively realized like whoa like this is good.

>> See this is this is my hot take. So if you uh if you look up at the board over here or I guess we can look here.

>> Yeah.

>> I think the inflection point was when Andre Karpathy had that tweet. I've never felt this much behind as a programmer. You know all the developers who were kind of skeptical about AI tried it. I think that was like kind of like the final moment where all of the skeptics are like fine we'll use it. When did Opus 45 come out? I'm pretty sure like early like December like

>> November. November or December I think. Yeah.

>> So like there was a time where like again I you know Opus 45 dropped and I think because we're both content creators like I messed with it but like I didn't really get it. This tweet did help a lot but I I don't know like at some point I think I was using it with cursor and I told it do a bunch of things. I'm like yo this model gets it and it's fast and it feels great. And ever since then to your point anthropic like Q1 is theirs. They just

>> back to back to back to back like nonstop like cowork dropped and you know I knew they were winning when people on Instagram were like oh everyone's using chat GBT but the secret tool that's going to 10x your business is Claude. Like when I started to see those videos and then like friends of mine who are teachers and stuff started to talk about oh I used claw co-work it felt like

>> yeah they had just crushed open AI but

>> I think the last month open has

>> has caught up. We we'll get to that in just a second. I think it's useful to like make this tangible and and kind of show people because in my opinion they went too broad around late February early March there was that announcement where I I forget her name. She like runs OpenAI's operations. Yes. Um I know

>> you know who I'm talking about. We'll show it on the screen. Um she came out and said like we're refocusing the company and we're putting all of our efforts into codeex the or a super app. That was like the news headline and they're basically going to combine Atlas and um all their other efforts which is GBT image and they cut Sora which I thought was a great decision to just

>> and so so they were the unfocused company and Claude you had this perception that Anthropic was super focused

>> because they were all about coding models image no models no video models nothing

>> right right and so they had this terminal they had like the terminal interface that people loved right? And I would use it in cursor and then they just started launching a bunch of stuff so Like while claude or anthropic was kind of unfocusing OpenAI was focus and so like now like look at this so like there's claude co-work which is like code

>> mini claude code with a bunch of restrictions so it's like a similar technology but you have to learn them separately and then with that you can use what's called dispatch

>> but if it's clawed code you can use the remote so you and you it's not a it's not a thing you can use here you have to type in slash remote And then you have to set it up and it doesn't work in the desktop. You have to do it in the perspective. And then so like you have like routines but in co-work you also have scheduled like there's so many. It's just like

>> it's the same thing just

>> push them all together. And so I told you that you know and people are saying like oh like you're getting paid by open eye. I'm not like open AI. I

>> I wish my boys getting paid by open. No. So, like I was I told you I was like I want a tool like clawed code that can build artifacts.

>> Yeah.

>> And I want to be able to switch what I'm doing here. I want to be able to create a new task on one of them. I want to be able to create a doc. I want to be able to create a presentation. I want to be able to create Excal. I know you you love Excal.

>> Codex is so good at Excal.

>> I saw I saw your um and so I just want to be able to do everything in one platform. And then lo and behold, like basically OpenAI releases that exact thing, right? And then so now there's not automations and schedules or dispatch and remote control. They're just going to release a codeex app pretty soon. So like you agree that they're kind of

>> Yeah, I 100% agree. I think like

>> there like I've noticed especially with the AI labs, there's the announcements you make for the people and then there's the announcements you make for the headlines which end up allowing you to raise a lot of money. I think Claude like Enthropic showing the iteration speed of how much they were shipping brought them a lot of attention. I think PR-wise it was a net positive, right? And arguably maybe that helped them raise a lot a bunch more money, right? Like if you're not in our space, which is a very small bubble,

>> genuinely outside looking in, it looks like Enthropic is winning. Like

>> that's probably true. by a magnitude of a thousand, not even like a small margin, by a magnitude of a thousand. Every single person that I would say is quasi technical that maybe like used to jailbreak iPhones or is like hip with these type of things but is not like in our space, I am telling you they think Anthropic is winning. So in terms of like the outside bubble PR uh stint, Anthropic is winning and the shipping speed helps a lot. Now to your point, they generally are using cloud code. believe it cuz why the heck do you have routines but then in co-work you have schedule? They're the same thing, right? Right. Like it just feels like different teams are spinning up cloud code instances, letting it rip and they're shipping it into production.

>> But they but their argument is that like oh so but you have marketers and stuff and you have business people and your company and you don't, you know, they don't know what a terminal is. You don't want to give them full access.

>> You don't have to though. Like literally like everything I see on cloud code and co-work can be one app. There's no reason why there should be, you know, separate things. Maybe you have like a toggle advanced and like you know something like that.

>> That's exactly what OpenAI has. So if you go to settings here and you go settings they what they do is they have it for coding and this is the meme that Sam Alton posted when it was just code maxing and like Excel mogging or something. Um but like you just switch it and all it is is a different view on the same underlying like abilities which I think is great like

>> makes sense

>> for the people who do everyday work. You don't need to see what a git work tree is. Like what even is that?

>> And so like it feels like and codeex now like open AI I feel like they're trying to win people in our bubble, right? They're increasing limits like every time. And let's be honest, Enthropic is being a little mean, right? Like they're banning people. They're like, "Oh, you can't use our things." And I understand it's costing them a lot of money. I don't think they're handling it the best way. Open AI seems to be doing the exact opposite. Free usage, free this. You don't like this? We'll fix this. Right? So it it it feels like open AI is listening to the people in the bubble which i.e is making the product better and then enthropic doesn't care about people in the bubble and only cares about perception outside the bubble

>> but but they won the perception outside the bubble from the bubble% and that's the thing cuz they started off as the focus like think about it if you remember the keynote dev day keynote of open AI they had like four other things that they had launched aside from a new model the agents the Zapier killer the the dragon drop the Who uses that now?

>> No, no, no. Literally zero users. No, actually zero users.

>> I believe it. I believe it. So, like they were very wide and like there was even this clip of Sam. He was like,

>> you know, like don't try to come against us. We will steamroll you. And then Enthropic came and steamrolled OpenAI. But it's funny now they're doing the opposite. So Enthropic was doing what OpenAI was doing and Open AI is doing what Enthropic is doing. But there's a difference. Both are close to IPO.

>> Sure.

>> So like does it even matter now? like from a like financial success, we've made it perspective.

>> You can never see behind the curtain and see what their incentives are. You can never see how how low they actually are running in money, like how badly they need to raise the next round. So, it's hard to see. I just look at it from a pure utility standpoint. And like for me, one of the companies is like shipping really open AI is cooking.

>> It definitely feels like u Open AI is cleaning up the product. They're cleaning up house. They're centralizing focus. And I think the one understanding everyone's come to which makes sense is the a great coding model is a great general purpose model cuz I think there was this theory of like oh we're going to have models in specific niches and of course I think for like medicine and biology like you have to have a separately trained model etc etc but like for general knowledge work right create this excel sheet scrape this data do this do this math it just so happens that a great coding model is a great generalpurpose knowledge model so Anthropic one in a sense early on because they were building create coding models and then they realize, oh, this thing can create spreadsheets and can analyze data and it can do a lot of stuff, right?

>> But just like code files, they're all just files on a computer

>> literally, right? It's like it's that's literally is it's just files in a file system. So like now everyone's building trying to build the best coding model and now they're wrapping it around gueies um for anyone who doesn't know what guey graphical user interface so that you can do different things with the models. And it just so happens where I feel like this matters a lot more now because the models are all great, but how you use the model, the tools you use with the model matter. And Codex is is 100% winning this arena.

>> Yeah. And so, okay, so this is a good kind of segue into like what I've been talking about, which is super app. And I got that from the Open AI headlines. They're releasing a super app. And I think it's I think of a super app as a coding model wrapped in a nice guey that can do coding work and knowledge work cuz like what else is there in in a business, right? You just have coding work, knowledge work, and then

>> the stuff you need to do in real life. Yeah.

>> Um and that's what we're seeing. And one of the advantages I think OpenAI had is they had a big team working on Atlas.

>> Yeah.

>> And in that they were working on browser use. And so like this here is a browser. By the way, if you try to use the browser in cloud code, doesn't work. You can't type into it. Like here, you can actually go to like if I wanted to go to like twitter.com, like you can actually go to it. Now, it doesn't keep me signed in, but like I've read between the lines and they

>> it's probably it's coming.

>> But you know who was ahead of all this though? Cursor had this early on.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> Cursor. Cursor. See, this is this is a top

>> cursor was an innovator.

>> Okay. Let's let's talk about cursor. So, the reason why people wouldn't want to use cursor over these companies, right? like Claude or OpenAI is because these companies are heavily subsidized with the best models in the world. Cursor I'm a huge cursor fan like before like when cla code was on its come up and code I didn't codec didn't exist to my knowledge.

>> No they didn't

>> um

>> you know and cursor was the first tool that I was using you know I mean I started off a year and a half ago on cursor right? No. Well, I blew up first because I was copying and pasting code from claw desktop app into replet. That's what got me into vibe coding. I was one of the first people to do that. But like

>> immediately after that, I found cursor and cursor was the first

>> cursor composer was still my favorite feature. Not composer, their models that they're doing now. The cursor composer

>> where you would type the app you want and it would make the edits

>> in inline edits. Like it would pop up on the screen and it was like

>> well now that's trivial, right? Everyone's doing that now. But like at the time it was the first innovative.

>> Yeah. Cuz like all they had at the beginning which was still good was like they had the tab feature which doesn't really benefit me cuz what am I going to autocomplete? I don't even know what to type.

>> Um and then then they had the chat which would allow you to chat with the agent about the code but it didn't actually make the changes. Right.

>> Yeah. Cuz you have to go like command was it command Z or command K? There was too many there was one. Yeah. There was three commands you had to learn how to use. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Sure. And but that tool it honestly felt like it went cursor claw codec. like it's kind of in that third iteration, but cursor dominated that first round. I mean, that's why they just got semiacquired by XAI SpaceX for $60 billion. So, yeah, let's talk about Cursor. So, what do you what do you think of the state of Cursor right now?

>> Yeah. So, to your point, Cursor, like the acquisition is a W. It is a big win because

>> let's let's talk about let's let's unpack this. Can you talk a little bit about the the

>> So, they basically got a deal with XAI that says um like we're we're going to give you 10 billion now and at some point we can buy you for 60 billion. We're going to partner up. XAI has I think they have the like most compute out of all the labs inhouse, right? OpenAI has to partner, Enthropic has to partner, XAI has the H100s and H200s ready in-house. So, they're going to train the model. Cursor is going to be the guey that they're going to use. Cursor's biggest uh weakness is that they are not a model provider and they don't have the benefit of subsidizing the price. For example, with a $200 Claude Max subscription, you're actually getting $5,000 worth of compute.

>> Unhealthy

>> for now.

>> Yeah, they could r and they're slowly rug pulling as well, right? You can't use it with open.

>> I don't know. Rug pull. Let's not rug pulling. They they're they're tearing the cost down

>> 100%. But it is I will say it it is like especially if you're an openclaw user it was definitely a shock like I think there's two sides to the problem. First and foremost, I think we got spoiled with a large amount of compute for a very, you know, decent price. But I guess it was hard for them to grow. Like who's paying $5,000 a month, right? Like that's that's insane. Like that's more than almost most people's rents, right? So it makes sense. But going back to Curser, the issue with Curser is Curser is probably the most expensive subscription, right? The $200 Ultra plan and the $200, whether it be Codex or CL, it doesn't compare. doesn't compare unless you use their composer model which the models don't compare.

>> Yeah. Like it's a decent feat like they basically built on top of Kimmy 2.5 Kim K 2.5 which was smart but they are not going to win in the model arena and I think they know that and that's where the SpaceX partnership/acquaition.

>> The way that I frame it is it's like they it is a acquisition with a 10 10 billion dollar optout clause

>> basically. basically and to me like it makes sense, right? Like Grock is should just focus like XA should just focus on the model. I don't think they have time between model and then they have X and then they have this and then they have that. Like it's good that they're focusing on the model. Cursor like for example like all the gooies like Codex is guey. I'll be honest, Cursor did it first. If you remember the agents tab like like the OG agents tab that everyone sort of hated in the beginning. That's basically what this was. And I I even feel like they were too ahead of their time, right? So like these guys have proved in terms of product like they've they've made the right decisions. They've sort of guessed where the industry wanted to go and they've led that path. They just can't win in the model front. So you know, cool.

>> This is their I mean their inapp browser is amazing. It's fantastic. And it persists

>> and yeah it persists and then also um an my co-founder he uses their uh that has like some sandbox feature where they like test your app and it'll like send you a video. That's insane.

>> Yeah. And they're betting big on that as well.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so and so you you think like they might they're probably closer to creating this super app than um than Claude at this point.

>> It would be difficult for them because right at the end of the day what powers the super apps is a coding model, right? All right. So if we already have the coding model, it's just a matter of who's going to create a good enough guey. And unfortunately, Anthropic is not great at product.

>> You think? Yeah. Yeah. You think so?

>> Like right now at least like I don't again we don't know the internals. We don't know whether people are spread too thin or they're focused or they're this like but from my I mean from your original usage and my personal usage like you can start a thread with claude and if you refresh the app breaks sometimes.

>> Sure.

>> Right. where with Codeex even though like yes it's not like I've had some bugs here and there it is the smoother app and with cursor like I've never had cursor like there was a period where cursor had issues and they fixed a lot of it I've never had cursor go

>> yeah cursor is a great software and I've used a lot I've used their new interface and I think we're we're seeing like an identical use like we're

>> all of these companies are converging on I think conductor did it first. I don't know if you ever used conductor. They were the first person first company to put uh this side panel where you basically have like your directory and then your threads. You can do multiple threads at the same time. It's very easy to switch. That's what I love about Codex is I'm literally just using whisperflow

>> typing in my prompt and I'm like, "Oh, I have another idea." Like, "Let's go explore it." New new chat whisper flow. I just speak into it. It's like a little Jarvis. And then whatever you want to show up on the right will just show up when you need it. And that's why also on top of all the features we talked about, design mode or claw design. Yeah. So I I I messed with claw design. I will say it feels like the most refreshing one cuz it was different um out of like all the things we've seen the last couple weeks. And also with design, what's interesting is I don't think it was made for designers. I think it was made for people who have taste but don't know how to design, but you can in a way communicate it, right? So you can upload images, you can like share like um Figma info like if you go to like the Figma I think it's a marketplace so you could see people's designs and like it will like tell you okay like what kind of design are you looking for? Uh and you could be like give me some suggestions. I was do using it yesterday. It was like oh aquatic greenery with a moss this like it's very like particular and the output was pretty great. But this goes back to my earlier thesis a great coding model is a great general model. You just need to wrap the tool.

>> I mean, a great design tool is literally a coding tool. I mean, code. Yeah. It's And so, the way that I see it is like all of these design mode should be like your chat should enter design mode. The user should not go to cloud design. And by the way, it's only on the web.

>> It's not an app.

>> How How do you use co-work? Oh, you can only use co-work on the on the desktop app, but you can use cloud code on the web, but you can only do it with the git.

>> By the way, do you know how you export your cloud.ai AI/design like stuff.

>> No, I

>> you copy you copy something and then you have to drag and drop it into cloud code. So it's like they're not even connected.

>> Why would it not be like why wouldn't you just open up a new project, create this and say, I want you to design this, right? And then the the artifact that pops up on the right is design mode. Like like the browser enters design mode and and maybe it's like a fixed layout where like you have the phone frames, it's a mobile app or like

>> you know what I'm I I hope they're I hope for for their sake that they're rebuilding the entire app and all this stuff is going to happen cuz it's it is such a fumble, right? Like the fact that I have to go on claude design on the browser and then I have to copy that on claw code, right? But then if I wanted to use co-work, I have to open up the

>> Yeah. What if you wanted to turn whatever you coded into a investor deck?

>> Yeah. Like I wanted to create No,

>> you have to export it, put it into co-work because the cloud

>> co it's not even a shared session, right? Like it's like it's different context. I have to explain again what exactly it is.

>> Sure. And and like it's hard to to get the uh co-work session to look at other file like you can't it can't interact with any other files. So it's

>> it's a weird situation. One thing I wanted to talk about before we get into like um like I want to talk about like what your favorite tools are right now and like some more tactical things. I do want to talk about OpenClaw um because this

>> OpenClaw was something I was skeptical about at first. I thought they had a very the early movers to openclaw were people that talked about other things that aren't um I thought there was just a lot of like scams going on in in OpenClaw. So I was skeptical at first and then I don't look at openclaw as just like how good is openclaw. I look at it as an idea which is basically an AI agent

>> that runs on a computer full control over a computer that has channels.

>> It has what I u personality file. So, it basically has like these files that it keeps updated as you use it more. So, in theory, if it worked right, the more you use it, the more it knows about you, uh, the more it can do for you. And then they made it so you could create skills with natural language. Yeah. So, like there's a lot of things in there that has never been done before. And as a team, we've spent a lot of time thinking about this. Like,

>> it's a whole new paradigm. And so, I'm curious like, are you using openclaw or Hermes or

>> very much I'm very much a OpenC like I have like a forked version and I have

>> So, how do you use it? Let's talk about that for a second.

>> Before I I get into how I use it. I want to agree with you on one point where it's like it in theory it wasn't anything like new, but like different new things got put together and it just like you kind of felt this spark. To me, the biggest thing was the heartbeat, right? The fact that every 15 minutes the agent gets pinged, it has this prompt where it looks at all your stuff and then it can message you. Because when you think of humans, like you and I have a heartbeat as well, right? It's every second or microcond whatever it is and it's like our heart's pumping and like you and I get to think and do things right that 15minute heartbeat like I don't want to say almost but kind of simulates that right where like based on all the stuff you said it has the user information all these markdowns and all this context about you and if again the coding model underneath gets better if the general if the model underneath gets better then and it has memory and has context it should be a net positive whether it's your business your personal life so how do I use open claw Um, you know, I'm sure as a creator, your channel being bigger than mine, you probably get hit up every single day. Sponsor this, sponsor that. I don't look at any of that, right? So, I have uh an email, a sponsor email that my agent has access to. Every time an email hits, it researches three things. First of all, are these guys a scam? Meaning, is the email a scam? If I get an@gmail.com, I'm sorry, maybe you're legit, but I'm not even going to consider it. And then, if it gets a company email, we research the company. I actually give it an exact prompt. research the company name on Google add re uh Reddit scam if anything pops up I don't even consider it and then let's say it's legitimate then I it'll do some preemptive research like how much money have they raised how many followers do they have and all this every single morning I get a report of

>> sure

>> uh top of the morning so I'm looking at this report I'm not even looking

>> do you have it respond to the emails directly

>> once once like and that's like so that's workflow number one workflow number two um notion is like my database Sure.

>> Once I've approved like which ones we want to talk to, the first email that gets sent is just pricing, right? This price, that price, whatever. And then again, the agent checks whether they've responded to it or they're willing to negotiate. At this point is when I take over. So when I take over, not only have they been vetted, but they're most likely going to be a sponsor of the channel, right? And this is like

>> maybe per day like an hour and a half, two hours work, but imagine it aggregated, right? like aggregated over a week, over a month, over a year, like how much time I'm saving, how much time I can spend with my family. Like these things like I'm more excited nowadays on this type of stuff than the coding improvements cuz this the models will get better, more intelligent, we'll write more code, but like this knowledge work category where you and I spend time on tasks that can be done by the model greatly, perfectly um that's the like sort of spark that openclaw ignited in me and excited me with.

>> Sure. Okay. So that first of all that's a great use case and I use it in a similar way. Um I will say when I was a creator um like and most of my time was spent just like doing content creation hiring a manager was the best thing I ever did. I was always like I don't want to give up you know like 10 to 20% of the brand deals

>> but like when you get someone to negotiate the deals you end up get making more

>> um because the especially if you get a good manager

>> um

>> uh but it is pretty interesting because AI will never turn off. it can research enough and it it can negotiate in however you want it to negotiate uh prices and etc. So, I think that's such a good use case for it. Uh, for individual creators who don't want to deal with it, because you're right, it can it can take up all your time as a creator.

>> Like, yeah, if you're like a midsize creator, like on whatever channel, you're getting hit up a lot. And I think a lot of companies are starting to realize like organic, social, like like just working with content creators is probably a great spend ad spend for them. So, it's like a lot of creators get hit up a lot and it's just it's too much to cycle through. And and me, I got a full-time job. I run a product studio. Like, there's too much going on. I don't have time to read. You know, I got a Miniax email the other day and it was a scam email. It was c-miniaax. Whatever.

>> Yeah. And if you're just manually going through, you're going to click on that. You're going to respond. Yeah.

>> And the link I clicked on the link and their form to fill out asked me to authenticate with X,

>> right? So,

>> so you were about to get fished.

>> Yeah. I was basically, right? And this is like the one time I decided to go through my emails. I didn't want to wait till like the next day for like OpenClaw to capture it for me. But like the literally the next day Opal calls like yeah scam email right. So, like there's just these minuscule things that might not seem like, oh, it's only 30 minutes a day, an hour a day, but on aggregate when you add all those things up and like the speed at which it does it like to your point, it doesn't get tired, it doesn't have a bad day, it doesn't get moody. That was like the spark when I'm like, "Okay, like these the open claws, the Hermes, like these agents are

>> and and what's interesting about Sorry to cut you off there at the end, but um it's interesting watching Claude trying to add

>> the same features that Open schedule dispatch and like they had like similar animations, the remote control, Telegram that you can do with SL remote controlgram or however you do it." Um, it's been interesting watching them uh do that and now they're like they're going to have to start copying codecs because it's kind of what people want and

>> it's seeing them kind of get caught up in that and then also OpenAI semiacquired OpenClaw. It's been like a super interesting.

>> Yeah. So the like basically like um it's so they hired Peter.

>> Sure. And Open Claw is run by a foundation, but I'm again I don't have insider info, but I'm like I would bet on OpenClaw versus a Hermes. Like a lot of people like OpenClaw Hermes for context. I haven't used Hermes, right? So

>> I I neither of them could win like at the end of the day.

>> So the the like it's interesting open AAI doing that is sort of confirmation that everyone's going to go build that now, right? Because open open is going to build it and users are excited. Of course, Enthropic is going to build it, right? So uh I'm glad openclaw exists. I do use open claw. Will a super app will codec super app destroy all of it? Maybe. We'll see. Uh but just this idea of like these mundane tasks in your life being taken care of by AI. I'm so bullish on.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I put it in two categories. I think there's the super app which is a it's a very react it's more of a reactive tool. like it's not a proactive tool like OpenClaw as you there

>> there's something about this interface and I I I'll use the the codeex one but um like there's something very reactive about it. I know they have automations built in and you can proactively create automations,

>> but that's not what the first thing you're going for,

>> right? So, so I think I think for me there's two types of tools that I use. I either talk to a claw or a super app, right? I never talk to like chatbt or claude anymore. Like I'm going to open up iMessage and I'm going to message my open claw. Yeah.

>> Because it has the context of me. It has heartbeat. So, it's checking in with me when there's an important email. It just sends it over like, "Yo, Riley, like you have to do this, bro. Like, oh, rent's due tomorrow. Like, you got to get this done." Um, and so like I I'm either using a claw or an agent running on a computer or sandbox

>> uh and then these uh tools on the computer, right? This is

>> That's interesting. So that's fair cuz like I don't go to codeex for proactive work. I go for react like meaning I'm going to be working with it. But my claw I just want to tell it once and I just want it taken care of.

>> Yeah. And you know there's certain things. Yeah. But like the cool thing about a really good employee that if you were to hire a human employee is they will surprise you with valuable stuff.

>> Agency, right? That's

>> right. They have agency. But like you'll wake up one day and they'll be like, "Hey Riley, like I know you're doing this. Like I made this report for you. Like I if if this is useful, like let me know. I'll keep doing it." And you're like, "Oh, that's really useful." It's like OpenCaw actually has that potential.

>> Now you do have to kind of be proactive with OpenClaw at this stage, right? Like it's um and what I always tell people when they're setting up open claws to like keep it narrow. Like the more goals you give it, the more broad you are.

>> People put like 15 30 skills like 20 different connectors and all that stuff and it's like oh none of it works. Yeah. Because like even imagine if if I got hired here and I joined the Vive Code team and like off rip you give me 40 things to do. I'm quitting the next day. Like

>> and in reverse, right? If you came in and told me you had 40 skills and you I'm like, "Hey, so what are you good at?" I would much rather you say, "I'm great at coding." And then versus you just listing, "Oh, I can do the dishes. I can do list off all these things." Then it's just like it's overwhelming. What do you get it to do? And so it's like

>> I wonder if there's a world where there's many agents, they each have their own like niche. Like I don't know if it's is it in a group chat like I'm trying to figure out Yeah. what the interface for agents are in the future. What do you think?

>> Yeah, like so from my like experimentation I will say like the main agent with the ability to deploy sub agents for specific tasks seems to be the best one especially with open cloud because if you give the main agent a super big task um the way it works is especially the gateway is like it's a queue system. So if you tell it to do one big thing it's basically stuck doing that one big thing. you can't tell you can't continue to communicate with it. But but this idea of like you have one orchestrator agent and you're not even communicating with the sub agents. You tell the main agent what's going on. He tells he or she or whatever you want to call it tells the sub agents what to do and they report back to it. That seems to be like the great sweet spot. The only issue I have with betting on this architecture is we don't know where the models are growing, right? We don't know if like there's a new training method, if there's a new style, like there's kind of the models, the model labs have the benefit of building great tooling because they see where the models are growing. It's funny though, Codex is the only one doing that right now. OpenAI is the only one doing that right now. But as of yet, like the way I'm using OpenC other tools is like I'll have a main agent that sort of orchestrates everything that deploys sub agents. I don't communicate with the sub agents. I communicate with the main agent because I want one agent to at least have context for everything. have

>> sub agent is an agent that is delegated by an orchestrator and I I've seen like people like have like multiple main agents and like multiple teams again I maybe I haven't tried it enough I I don't like I haven't found great success with it but it feels like having this one buddy this friend this agent that I could communicate with and that person that agent I can't believe I called it a person but that agent is responsible for like delegating and making sure everything is done that seems to have had the great um I've had great experience with that memory is a big issue. Um I don't know if you're familiar with super memory. I tried building my own memory um thing. It kind of worked. It kind of didn't. I don't really care to maintain it. There's certain things um I'm just willing to pay for. Super memory has been really good to me.

>> Super Memory is a tool that you can add to your OpenC setup.

>> Yeah. So they have a simple plugin. It's basically like

>> it's like a database,

>> a memory service, right? Like they like have graphs and like all this stuff. The cool thing I like about Supermemory, and I don't know if this is a product vertical that that's going to win. Uh the founder is pretty cool. What I like about Supermemory is like my memory exists in that cloud, but then I can connect it to another app. So like I had my Open Cloud running on Hostinger uh cuz they were running the crazy deal, but then I hated running it on Hostinger. So it broke like it was slow. Like I built like my own little custom wrapper to deploy it and it took me like a minute and a half whereas theirs would like take forever and I'm sure like there's a lot of constraints and all the stuff they have to deal with. Not

>> crap. Yeah. So so this is interesting. So when you create an open claw, right? And it's just like a file system, right? You you have just like code files. You have you have literally code files and then one of the files is like uh you have like your agents.md file and your your

>> user MD.

>> Yeah. and it in by default it stores the memory in those somewhere in those files.

>> Um but what you're saying is you have this service that uh super memory and there's others I I remember

>> there's me zero and there's a couple others. Yeah.

>> So this is kind of stored in this location where you could in theory have other agents using the same memory

>> and exactly right like there's a part of me that's like I want like like you can imagine a world where agents are the product and like every company has a specific agent or maybe one agent rules it all. I don't know. Um, but like I own my memory like or I can take my memory anywhere with me. The issue with the open claw native memory system, it's basically just markdown files. You have a memory.mmd and then there's a folder where every single day all the things that you said with the agent are stored and then it'll contextualize that.

>> So when I nuked my hostinger instance, the memory died with it, right? So but if I have super memory like the plug-in setup, I took my memory with it. I have it running in my local machine. I can deploy it on a separate service, right? So, that was another thing as well where like memory is very important. I'm seeing people use obsidian and stuff. I have you obsidian?

>> I I've made a video uh using Obsidian. I was super big on it like before

>> like Claude I Claude was still in I was using Claude in a terminal with Obsidian because Obsidian is just Markown Files.

>> Markdown Files. Yeah, Markdown just won.

>> Yeah, Markdown Files just won. And uh yeah, the the Kapano guy, the founder of Obsidian on Twitter, he's he's been saying it for a long time. Yeah,

>> he's like own your files.

>> He bet he bet he bet his company on that and now he's winning. But yeah.

So, like, OpenClaw, like, to just summarize, is very interesting. I don't think it's the only one to exist. I definitely think OpenAI, for the will of good PR, will probably continue to support it, which is great if you're an OpenClaw user. The last couple of updates have been great. Uh, but I think that's where the world is going, like these purposeful agents that can do these mundane tasks. Um, and I love it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just agents are starting to use computers. Um, and he, uh, tweeted the other day. He's like, he's just like, enjoy this brief period of time where you can watch the browser use in a way, like, 'cause soon it's just going to be so fast that, like, it's going to be too fast for us to even follow. And so, it's, it's this weird time where, you know, it's the, they're speeding up. I don't know if you've used browser use. Have you used browser use?

I had it build a chess. So, in one prompt, this is in my long hour and 40-minute CodeX video, I had it build a chessboard, um, like a chess game, and then play itself, and it was just like moving fast. The first time it did it, it, like, for move four, move checkmated itself, and I was like, "No, play for longer." And it was like, "Okay." It just clicked on the restart button and then just played itself again, really fast, like faster than I would ever play anyone. I was like, "Wow."

Have you seen their repo? They released a repo where they have like a browser use harness, self-healing. Oh, are you talking about the thing that the guy made a video on the other day where you can like? Oh, that's real-time.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, and that's another interesting thing too, like with agents. Now, we're entering an arena where, like, yes, we know the agents can write code, but what if they can write code around their harness? Like, what if they can build themselves tools that persist?

Like, like, it's like, imagine like a robot that can build extensions of itself, right? So, again, the best coding model is the best model for everything, right? And that's what everyone's betting on. Computer use, I don't know if you've looked at like the recent model drops, that's been a big focus for a lot of them. Even Opus, like Opus 47 had a huge computer use boost because, to your point, we've realized, "Oh, the agents are capable of doing all these things. Let's give them a computer. Let's give them the ability to do X, Y, and Z."

Well, they also need training data on, um, like computer, like they need. 'Cause basically the way it works is like it takes a screenshot, it feeds it to the LLM. The LLM is like, "Oh, click on DOM D4." Yeah. Like literally. And then it'll click and it'll take a screenshot. So, like, it's pretty, like, slow, but like, it's going to get faster and faster.

And you notice Opus, if you looked at their new model, the resolution at which they can analyze images increased to like, I'm pretty sure it was like the exact dimensions of a normal MacBook. And that's because they're betting computer use.

Yeah. And so, it's very interesting. So they have precision and then so like now, you know, sometimes you're waiting 10 seconds for the mouse to go from the the menu button to the submit button, but it's like, what if it's a tenth of a second? Um, and they acquired another company called Versep. Um, I didn't even know that, which is, uh, they created something called Vi Computer. It never took off because it wasn't, it's not there yet, but it's like a, one of the best computer use guys.

And they probably just hired, they just wanted the team, probably.

Yeah. Well, Meta, so this guy, this is like a side story, but this is really interesting. So, Versep is this company. They're out of Seattle, maybe. And their computer use, the guy, his name's Matt, who I got on a podcast like a year ago, but then we ended up not releasing it because Zuck came in and bought him for 200 mil a year. You know, you remember when he was like buying the scientists, they just scooped him up out of the company, and then the company ended up going to Anthropic. So, clearly Meta is quite interested in that game too. They're just.

And they tried to buy Manis.

Yeah. And Manis, Manis was the first super app, and that's the thing. What's quite unfortunate is the first ones didn't really capture the huge upside. Again, Manis.

Manis captured.

100%. I don't want to say Gen Spark is not good, but they're at like 300 million. Yeah. M, Manis won. But it's like, to me, like the level of how big the CodeX super app and Claude, when they get stuff together, like how high of a growth it's going to be. I don't think it's going to be com, it's, I don't think it's comparable to where Manis is at right now. Same with Cursor. Like Cursor was the first one with the agents tab. And I guess this is me sort of like inspiring myself, 'cause I don't think you have to necessarily be first. You just have to be the best.

Yeah. I mean, you have to, to a degree.

You have to be early. Yeah.

Cursor. Cursor. You say like Cursor hasn't won because it feels, like, in the bubble, but there's so many people you talk to who are in software engineering but like aren't paying attention.

They're not even. But here's the thing, they're still on tab complete. Like a lot of, like, people are still like, "Oh, Cursor, I have a buddy."

But you know, you know, I just want to finish by saying like, Cursor, in a very meaningful way, has won.

10 again. Don't get when I say hasn't won. I'm talking about number one.

Number one.

I'm talking about number one. 10 billion, I'd take 10 billion dollars.

No, no. At the end of the day, every, like, at the end of the day, number one is going to be the best coding model. And I think that's kind of the thing.

And that, that's the thing, like, unfortunately, you can't be number one unless.

Okay. Okay. And I want to talk about someone who's been hiding for the, it feels like they've been hiding. Shout out Logan Kilpatrick out there. Where's Google right now? Like, doesn't it feel like they're, they're like ramping up to something, maybe?

I have a couple who used to work at Google. And the one thing I think Google has, Google has infinite money, right? Right? They have GDP-level money. They have GDP-level power. And they have, they have like, like great talent. The problem with Google, from again, insider sources for me, is the teams are not really allowed to fully collaborate together. Like information is very sparse, right? Like, so there will be people in Google who will find out the new model drop the same time you and me find out. Sure. Right. And, and it makes sense, right? An organization at that level that deals with that much data, right? So, like, like it would be nice if the Gemini team was allowed to operate in their own box, silo, where they're a startup and they can mess up and they can move. 'Cause like Gemini, in terms of knowledge, is the smartest model, but tool calling is not that good.

Sure.

Like, I tried it for computer use, it couldn't even click right. Like, it, it's just, it, it's embarrassing to say it's a Google model, but if you remember how bad Bard was.

Sure. And then how good Gemini 3 or 2.5, I forgot what class model was that leap was huge. 1 is their latest. I have no doubt they'll be able to leap again. I genuinely think, and like, again, this is from people who I know work in Google, are close and part of these teams, it's like they have a huge organizational problem. Like, and they're not allowed to really collaborate. Information is sparse. Like.

So, so, no, think about this. Like, if you, if you have like a chat or or question that involves like a Google search, you're going to go to Gemini. If you, if you want to study for class, you're going to use NotebookLM. If you want to make a quick vibe coding app, you're going to use Google AI Studio. If you, if you want to do serious coding work, you're going to use Anti-Gravity, which is like the new version of Wind Surf. And then, and then if you want to do a design, you're going to use.

Um.

Stitch.

Stitch. Stitch.

Yeah. So, like, they have all these product surfaces. It's like, "Hey, what if you did what OpenAI did?"

One super. You asked all of these teams, what if you just, you, you have the Elon Musk level like come in, you interview everyone, what are you doing today?

Which he is great at. I'm not going to lie. He is great at getting stuff together.

Like, imagine if if someone. But the problem is, is like, that person's going to be, you have to be the leader of the company to come in and just do it. You're not going to get some consultant to come in and do it, you know, like. But like, honestly, if I was Google right now, I would take the best people from all these teams, put them into one, and either make Google AI Studio or Anti-Gravity the super.

Like, like, literally, like Gemini should be its own startup. Like it should, like, like they should have like maybe their own leadership. Like, obviously, I'm not saying they don't report to the core leadership, but like, they should be given freedom to like move fast, break things, and do all this stuff. 'Cause Google doesn't have the problem the labs have, which I don't think the labs have a problem, but like, Google doesn't have to worry about money. They make money, a lot of it too. They have great data sourcing, financially, right? It's just a matter of like getting it together. And I find that it's a lot harder, or it's a lot bigger ask than we think. 'Cause to me and you, it's like, "Okay, let's just get everybody together and let's hunker down." I think at an organization that level, it, it takes a little bit of shaking.

Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. So, okay. So, like, I guess, I guess the, you know, the way that I think about it is they're one model train away from like being in the in the running, you know? You know, they're going to release a model that's good at tool calling. I mean, you would have.

Like, like, it's like, there's no way they can't do that, right? It's, to me, it's just internal stuff, right? 'Cause again, Bard was terrible. I don't, I don't think people remember how bad Bard was. It was extremely bad.

Also a bad name.

A terrible name as well. Kind of like what was it? Moltbot. Yeah. I don't know.

Dude, we don't need to get into all the names of OpenClaw. They did settle on the best name though.

Yeah, OpenClaw is nice. Open worked out. Like them being bought by OpenAI worked out. But, um, Gemini, like the Gemini team, I just think like needs to be allowed to operate as a startup. They are one model away of catching up to everybody. I don't think they're like years behind. And like, all the techniques that are being used, it's out in the open. It's not like Anthropic or Codex is doing anything novel. I think Open, like Google should win, and I want them to win because I own Google stock. So please.

I love it. I love it. Okay. Okay. I want to turn this to to kind of uh get into some more tactical things and, um, like strategic things, right?

So, if you think about all of this, right? You said it yourself. You said coding models, uh, the best coding model is going to be the best at everything, right? So, given the fact that everyone's going to be interfacing with coding models soon, right? That's going to be part of most people's work. What are the things that are kind of universal across any of these coding tools? Like, I, I heard you mention on Greg's podcast, I, I think you said something along the lines of, um, you said like, what, your inputs really matter a lot. Like, it's really important, like, how you prompt. And so I'm curious like.

Yeah, talk about prompting and like, what do you think are the most important things to do right now that kind of stretch across all use cases? Yeah, like, uh, the one main thing, like, I, I want a lot of people to understand is like, even though, like, we label these models as like, "Oh, this model thinks," or "This model does," underlying the LLM is just a predictor of text, right? Somehow mathematically, when you map, uh, words to a vector database, you map them on like, uh, a vector graph. Uh, the, like, words that correlate together are close by. I, I don't even know how the math works, but if you ask a model, "What is the capital of France?" on that graph, Paris is closer by, so it's going to pick Paris. So, what the models are great at is they're a great predictor of the next token. It doesn't actually think, it just predicts what it thinks is the, not even thinks, what it knows to be the next answer. Right? So, the reason why I say that is the English that you use, the words that you use are way more powerful than you think. It's not a, like, you and me can understand, like, for example, I could say, "Oh, we watched a basketball game and those guys killed them." Right? Based on language and history and stuff, you know, I don't literally mean that they picked up an axe and killed all of them, you know? That I mean, like, "Oh, they just beat them in the."

Models do not have the ability to understand the way you and I do. It will, it has the ability to predict the next token. That being said, when you understand this, then you understand how powerful, how important your prompts are. This is why I think something like WhisperFlow, um, is great because I think more people can speak better than they can type, right? Typing just feels a little too long, or you want to shorten things, right? But being able to speak and to articulate exactly what you want the model to do is one of the biggest plus EV things you can do. 'Cause as the model gets better at predicting the next text, it's going to give you exactly what you ask for.

On top of this, it's like, it, it's really hard to articulate what it is that you want if you don't have any industry knowledge, right? Which is why I think we're seeing the marketing types are getting obsessed with vibe coding tools are easier than the other people. And then like, we're kind of starting to see these vibe, there's this tool called Pulia that came out, uh, it was an AI marketing agent or whatever, and it just spat out slop. And so like, so this will make sense in a second, but like my point is is like.

You need to have some industry knowledge in order to articulate it. And so like, right now, we're seeing a lot of gimmicky tools get launched where like it just spits out slop, but like none industry experts, A, don't know how to articulate what it is that they want, and B, they don't really know how to verify whether it is good or not. In the same way for me, when I, you know, vibe coded at the beginning, like.

You know, if for me, if it ran, I was like, "Good." And if people would be like, "Oh, but the code's." Like, "Not good." And it's just like, "No, I mean, look at it, it works. It's working." And like, I, you know, and that, that's kind of the difference. And so what I've noticed is people who have like a lot of range, you know, if they're good at marketing, they're good at coding, or they understand the basic concepts, are able to just do so much.

Because they, they know a good enough amount. You don't need to go as deep anymore.

No, you can be a great six, seven out of 10 and go really, really far. You just have to be a six or a seven out of 10.

Yeah. Yeah. So, generalists are just killing it right now, I think, across the board. Especially if you have like high agency and like you don't really believe in the walls between stuff. Like, like if you, if you just have some good taste in design, like you're a designer now because you can just, you know how to use the tool for knowledge work. You can, uh, you just have to ask your team, be like, "Hey, how do I, uh, create a branch on this repo? Like, let me, let me hop in and I'll edit it." And so like, now our whole team, when we want to make design changes, can like, even even the non-technical people can just hop in and make the changes directly to the codebase, and they can push it to their own branch, and then the team can review it, make sure the code's good. But like, it's sped up our velocity so much. Is, yeah, sorry, this is your like seven out of 10 like generalists can go far 'cause like if you have the ability to articulate what you want, exactly how you want. We're getting to the point where the models are getting good at giving you that. Now, it's not perfect. There's still room for improvement, but it's much better than it was last year. Another thing that I've noticed that a lot of people do is a lot of people are giving it all this unnecessary context that it doesn't need, especially in the coding arena. Like, one thing people will do, for example, I've seen agent MD files where they'll be like, "This is a React codebase." You don't need to tell it that. Like, it, when it reads the file, it's going to realize, "Oh, this is a React codebase," right? Like, like skills, agent defaults, all these things need to be perfectly articulated and they need to be necessary. For example, with skills, in my opinion, the best skills are, to your point, domain expertise and workflows that are specific to you and your company. Right. For example, um, and this was like an early, uh, test I did of OpenClaw. I connected OpenClaw to my Notion, to dub.sh, which is my analytics platform. I connected it to my YouTube analytics and to Stripe, and I told it, "Generate me a report of how my channel did and how my business did this month." It generated a report. It was complete garbage. Complete garbage. It took these numbers, that numbers, it didn't even do the math right. And that's because I didn't explain to it what a report looks like. So, what I did was I created a skill as to like, "Okay, for CTR, this is how you calculate. For the sponsor videos, this is how you calculate." This is, I explained it cleanly, thoroughly in a skill, and in one shot, it got it the next time. Right? So, keeping your agent stack minimal, keeping the skills minimal, right? Um, being articulate with what you wanted to do, like, I've almost seen a night and day. And like, there are times I'll experiment where I'll talk to it like a friend, like vaguely slang and all this stuff, and I'll talk to it like articulately. The results are night and day, right? So, if you give it garbage, it'll spit out garbage. If you give it good, maybe might give you garbage, but the likelihood of it being good is a lot higher.

100%. One thing I found for like knowledge work type stuff, I actually don't even think about prompting as much as getting to one good output and then reverse engineering the skill out of it and telling. So like what I'll do is like, I, I used to be like, you know, I have a very structured way I make my videos. Like you've seen my, my videos have a, there's a lot of.

This is crazy. By the way, anyone watching, it's like boom, boom, boom. Like it's a very, uh.

Dude, we got all, we got all, we can change the camera angle.

Yeah, this is a lot of effort that goes into like preparing for a video. And so my, my number one thing for YouTube is my YouTube skill. So like, if I were to go to CodeX, right, and I type in slash you, I have this YouTube researcher skill which uses what's called the, uh, it uses the SER API for searching, right? For like, it could search Ross Mike on, um, on YouTube, and it will list all your videos. And then it uses another API called SuperData, which is like a one-second grab, full transcript. And so like, often times I will, when I want a good, when I'm, I'm like, "I need this hook to be absolutely amazing." You know, I'll spend three hours on a, on just the hook. If it's like a big long video, like if I'm going to spend all this time on the video, like we have to get people to the good part of the video. And so you got to spend a lot of time on the hook. And what I'll do is I'll just write down kind of what I want to include in the hook, and I'll just send my agent off to analyze all the educational YouTubers, find a similar video that performed really, like, outside of their, uh, range of views, you know, like if they're averaging 30,000 views, it'll look for videos over 200,000, find the best hooks that they did, and then apply the same style to my video. Um, and that's kind of how I'll do it. And so, like, that's one thing. It's like, you don't have to rely on typing. That's why I like the term context management. It's like, you can send them to the right API, or you can give them a bunch of really good examples. And like, there's a, there's a bunch of different ways to like engineer these workflows beyond just typing or speaking. It almost feels like employee onboarding. Like, uh, one example I gave Greg, and like, it's exactly what you said. I will like go back and forth with the agent, show it exactly how it gets done, and once we've had a successful run, we're going to be like, "Okay, look at everything that you did, how it went, right? Let's turn that to a skill." And I've even like done this recursively where like, I'll keep telling it to do it again and again, and there will be times like it'll have a hiccup, and because like the agents can, like, you could tell it, "Oh, you had a hiccup, fix this," and it'll fix it. Then you'll be like, "Okay, now make sure the skill gets updated so this doesn't happen again." Right? When, um, like I like to think I coined this term, but like, you want to scale for productivity with your agents, right? Like, this exact workflow might not work for somebody else, 'cause this works exactly for you. But a lot of people are just installing 50 different, 100 different skills from different people. They might install yours, mine, and they're like, "Why doesn't it work?" Because the agents are supposed to be personal. Yes. Right? Like, it's personal computer made sense back then. I think personal agent makes a lot more sense now. I mean, it's like hiring an employee. Like, when you hire an employee, there's a process by which you hire, and you either get good or not get good at that process, you know? And, and that's why I think a lot of people are falling prey on Instagram and other social platforms where they are getting sold skills, but like, what you don't understand is like.

I've seen a skill course like.

So many, so much money in it, by the way. Like.

The guy was selling you for 150 bucks, and like the video had 150k likes, and I was just doing simple math, I'm like, "Man."

Dude, hey, you'll. Yes, all of that stuff is happening, and I think, yeah, people are.

Not understanding the point. I think.

Especially as we move more into general agent use cases, like you just need to get good at.

Agents. Like, you can get good at it, and it just takes reps. And so like, learning how to create one skill is way more valuable than someone giving you an Excel file of a hundred skills, you know, that, you know, where you can download them. And that's why like the OpenClaw skill hub.

Claw hub. Clawhub was such a nightmare. Like, every skill I downloaded, it was just doing random things. And like.

Were viruses too? Some of them were malware.

Yeah. And so I think, I, yeah, learning that as a skill is really important. And as you were saying, the agent doesn't fully know everything that you're doing, but the model companies, they want to solve for that.

Yeah.

Do you hear of Chronicle?

No.

Chronicle is their new feature that on on CodeX. So, if you go to, um, personalization, and we go to this Chronicle research preview, it screenshots my screen like every few seconds and it stores it. And so, it's starting to like pick up on additional context. So, if you're watching a YouTube video, it'll know you're watching the YouTube video when you type. And, and now I'm seeing more and more that once you have this. And by the way, I'm not, there's obviously a lot of like, um.

Security, privacy stuff.

I'm not endorsing this as a feature. I'm just letting people know like, this is the direction it's going. It's going to have more and more context. And so I listened to Arand, uh, the CEO of, uh, Perplexity. He, he gave this speech once about how something flipped in his brain when he, he used to get mad at users or blame the users for typing in really bad queries on Perplexity. And then one day, some guy told him, he's like, "No, you need to have 100% like, everything that goes wrong is on you. You need to make it as easy as possible for people." And like, I feel like that's the direction it's going. Is like, they would rather this just work. And, and so there's a lot of ways that they're trying to make it work for people, which is like.

Recording your screen, eventually maybe audio, and like, and you see all of these connections, right? If you connect it to Linear, right? Maybe like the best prompt you could do is "Implement this feature at Linear," and then you like type the name of the ticket, and then that's the best way to do it. And so like, it's fun to see how all these companies are doing integrations. Yeah, there's a lot of like new cool stuff. Like, this is interesting. Another thing, um, that I, I built, and I, I didn't know if like, it'd go far, but like, now with all the stuff that's happening, it's interesting. What I thought of is like, let's say you had like a web app, like, like a simple product that people loved, and everyone wants to customize it to their own degree, and like, you make it like modular, you add drag and drop, and all this stuff, but you can only take it so far. But then what I thought of is like, imagine you had like a chat bubble over here, and people can prompt the features they want on your app, and like, this like spins up a sandbox agent, builds it, pushes it to their instance, and like, at first.

Are these technical people or completely un.

So my thought, like, I thought of this like four months ago. My goal was like for untenical people, non-technical people to do this, but like for simple web apps. And at the time, the models, I, at least the models didn't allow me to think this visionary. Like, early December, I didn't have the Opus 4.5 moment. But now, it feels like with all the context these models will start to have of people, it might get to the point where like, you might not be able to communicate exactly what you want, but based on your behavior, it knows what you want, right? Like, and we already at this with like, you know, ad platforms, right? Like, you look at one thing, and they based on whatever algorithm they have, know exactly what the next thing it is you want, right? So I think personalization is like a big thing that everyone's going for. There's a couple different angles, but at the end of the day, the best coding model is the model that could do all.

Yeah, I know. Honestly, like, that's actually what it just comes down to. It sounds like what you're describing is kind of like a GitHub for vibe coding.

But basically, like, imagine like there's this like, like, let's say I'm on Twitch, and like, I like want this specific, like, I want the chat feature here, and I want this here, and like, if I could like say like, "Oh, can you drag this here, drag that there, drag this there?" Like, the models can do it.

Sure. And it's at a point where like, you know, back then, like one-shotting was a miracle, right? Like, remember like when that was like the benchmark, like, "I one-shot this and it worked." Right? Now, like, one, like, you expect the first shot to work. You expect the app to run, right? So I think like, stuff like that, like personal customization, having the app specifically tailored to how you want, API as a service, all these things are starting to become possible 'cause again, the best coding model is.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it just connects to things and it, whatever you would want an app for, it just does the thing. It's, it's, it's a really, really weird, uh, world out there. I do want to hop to, um, you've been talking about CMUX, T-Max, V-Max, GMOX, all the.

MXes. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, yeah, let's, let's dive into some tools that people aren't talking about as much right now, like non-super apps. So you, my co-founder, and a couple other people on our team are using Semox, I believe, which from my perspective, it just looks like a chaotic.

Terminal mess. What is.

So, basically CMUX is built on top of. Wait, is it CMUX or T-Max? I might be. It's one of the MX. I have all three. Like, I have, and there's a Demox as well. Like, Elon M.

Yeah, there's all these MXes, but basically it's like a giant terminal. It uses Live Ghosty, the same library that powers Ghosty terminal. But then I have a tab, and I can have multiple terminals in one app, and I have these hotkeys, and I can switch between different tabs, and I can have multiple terminals.

On the same screen, but I could also have a browser.

So you have the, you have the left sidebar, like, like this, right?

Yes. And that's like all the tabs for the different terminals for the different like projects.

So it's like, it's like this.

Basically. Yes. Yeah. And but like, all these can be terminals.

So it's just terminal, terminal.

But then I also have a browser. It also, like, CMUX has a browser, like, like persistent browser. Um, like the hotkeys are great. Um, and so this is the big thing. There are a lot of people, and we see it, the companies are pushing for GUIs, right? I don't know if the CodeX has gotten an update recently, but it feels like they're pushing for the GUIs. There's still a part of me, especially for focused work, that likes working on a terminal, right? Like, if I'm working on one project and one project alone, and I'm solely focused on this, I don't know why I feel like this incentivizes me to work on multiple things at a time. And that's not bad. Like, there are times where I want to work on multiple different things at a time. But it feels like for the terminal, I'm sure like the people in the.

Open it in a mini window.

See, the super app could do everything.

Yeah. You just, you just full screen it. It's easy as that.

The super app. But like, and I think your team would agree with me there, there's just something about like this, like focus. Like, although yes, I have multiple terminals of multiple agents running, there is this like, uh, thing about working in a terminal, especially as a developer. I don't know if it's like, you know, we've used it for so long and we can't let go, or like, I can't even tell you there's productivity gains, but like, I, I love CMUX or.

Demox. Cool. Demox. Whatever the M is. Yeah.

Um, have any bold predictions for this year? Let's think about this for a second together. Like, where are we going? Like, this, this is something that I, like to talk about with the team. It's like, it's like, let's think about this last year for a second, right? Or, or, you know, the last year, you know, we had really smart models. We had the, the terminal interface came out. People started coding. AI agents are starting to think for longer and longer and longer. We're to the point where like, I have done an hour and a half run.

Uh, on on, um, I told you I cloned Replet, or or Loveful just released, had sandboxes. I used, um, Daytona. Yeah. Um, and it just worked. I mean, an hour and a half.

Yeah. But still.

But it was, it was good.

Yeah.

And I could make edits to the app. It was actually insane. I was actually like blown away. But like, yeah. It's like, okay, so these agents are thinking for longer. They're getting better and better at tool calls. There's more and more integrations.

We're giving them computers.

We're giving them computers. They're going to be able to spin up these computers, do things, and then. Yeah. And that begs the question though, like, one thing about the negative downside of the sandboxes are that they all get blocked by servers. Warehouse compute. I think a lot is, I think, I think a lot of companies are going to realize, "Okay, agents are going to be customers." Like, for example, Stripe had Stripe Sessions today. A good chunk of their announcements is like, "Oh, you can use your agents on Stripe. You can, your agents to issue cards, to do this, to do that, to do that." So I think from a business perspective, like, you used to think about developer experience, but now people are thinking about agent experience. Like, how, how can you have agents, like, um, integrate so well? Like, I work at Convex. Convex is a backend as a service. The one thing now we think about is, how do we make the model so good at Convex? Like, what, how can we change our APIs? What documentation can we give so that it's just so simple?

You guys plugged in yet? You guys got to plug in.

It's coming. I think, I think it's coming. Yes. Um, we have one on Cursor. So, like, we think about all these things. And I, I see a lot of companies think about these things. But in terms of predictions, first and foremost, I've come to realize, guys, it's almost so difficult to be on the spot because one thing I don't think a lot of people saw, 'cause we were Daario and all these people were betting on coding being the one that it was going to absolutely kill at. And although it's got better, we still, and I'm sure you've realized, uh, you know, with the company you're running, good engineers are still necessary. Like, the gap between someone who doesn't know and a good engineer, both using the tools, is very, very far. But knowledge work, the improvements in knowledge work is astronomical. I had a 27-page contract sent to me the other day, and I asked a lawyer for a quote, and the price had a comma. I'm like, "There's no way, right? There's no way I'm paying."

You know, if you paid him and you sent it to him, he's running it through Harvey or whatever. Yeah.

I ran it through Claude, and it broke every single page down. It gave me the gotchas. I literally asked it, "Where can they screw me?" And it broke it down. When you take this clause and that clause, they can basically do whatever they want. That was something that I was going to pay $1,000 for. So when it comes to knowledge work.

Which is a little amount for, like, like $1,000 an hour or some of these lawyers.

Yeah. Like, and listen. Yeah. Like, I definitely got a good quote, but like, some, like, Yeah. Some of these knowledge work ting, like, my my friend Muso, like, he did our company taxes, like the bookkeeping, like, and gave it to an accountant. The accountant was like, "Oh, do you have CPA experience?" No, he used Clark, he used Cloud Max, right? So there's like, we've made such an improvement with knowledge work. And I think especially with like these computer use things and all that stuff, like knowledge work is just going to be rocked.

And, you know, is that job loss? Is that people just using the tools more? I don't know that part, 'cause, you know, you're talking about people and like layoffs and all these things, you know, it's sad when you hear these things, but I feel like knowledge work is just going to exponentially take off like nothing before. Like, we're just seeing the beginning of like the computer taking the agent taking a screenshot, feeding it to its model, and then getting where to click.

So, so, okay. So, if we think about this in layers, right? You have this like super smart, like LLMs are getting really good. And then you have this agent layer, which allows it to use tools. And then it, one of the tools that it can, or can basically use.

I guess what makes an agent really useful is it can use all the tools on a computer, right? And then one layer on that is it can actually use the interface of a computer, which is like, um, mouse, keyboard, etc. And then on top of this, like a layer on top would probably be like to create like really good quality documents, like maybe it can start to learn how to use Canva, that type of thing, etc., etc. And then probably.

The next big unlock, which I'm actually unaware of, is payments.

Right?

Yeah, there's a lot. Stripe announced a lot of that today.

Right? Like, a really useful employee has the agency to go in and make payments. And, yeah, I guess do you know anything about that?

So, I, I actually like built a mini version of this for myself. I wanted to see if I could handle, if my agent can handle Uber Eats, right? So, there are many like virtual card providers. They have APIs. You could do that programmatically. The issue with virtual cards is some like sites don't accept virtual cards. Like, you think it needs to have an address. Stripe today launched the ability for you to issue cards that are for agents. And the way this works is, it's your Stripe credit card or debit card or whatever they call it. So, it's a legitimate card tied to your business that has an address. The agent. I don't know how the API works, but like, no sensitive information is fed to the agent. Sure, it can make the payment. It can get to the stage where it's about to make the payment, and then it messages you and says, "Should I make this payment?"

It doesn't.

It, so I don't know if you can turn it off. I, I'm pretty sure you should be allowed to do that.

'Cause if you can preload the account, like, I picture startups with millions of dollars.

Like, if you give it $50 and it goes rogue, like, if you raise $10 million.

That's what I'm saying. You know, like, obviously don't give it access to like the Amex that has a 100k limit.

Sure. Sure. Sure. But like, I'm thinking like, you know, I want to be able to do a $2,000 weekly limit.

Yeah. And it can.

If it goes rogue, you know, it's a expensive L, but like, it's a good story. I mean, we'd making money back in in just making content.

But you know what? Industry is starting to change and focus on all this. It feels like all the crypto bros who are legitimately building like legit things that didn't get caught up with the pump and dump stuff. It now everyone's focused on agentic commerce 'cause like now you can issue like tokens and all this stuff and you don't need a bank or a subsidiary. So have you, are you familiar with X42? So it's a protocol that Coinbase is backing that basically it's like an HTTP request that an agent can fire to send payments using crypto, right? So there's a lot of.

You find like a buyer and a seller, you, there's a way to connect and you can exchange funds. The only thing.

Is it reversible? Like, is it backed by like.

So Coinbase is backing it, which is like, again, it's a pretty big company. And I know, I think, uh, Stripe has their own implementation called Machine, uh, something protocol. The only issue currently at this state is you have these fragmented protocols. There isn't one united thing. And I think like, that's the big thing the next year is like having these agents make payments, right? Like, for example, if like, you know, at your guys's office, if there's like an Uber Eats stip, where like people can order lunch, heck, like, why doesn't the agent handle that?

Well, I mean, we actually already, my co-founder, he has a grocery bot that he uses. He orders, we like, we get blueberries and yogurt and stuff show up at the office unannounced. It's hilarious. Like, or he'll message it on text and be like, "Hey, we're running out." But I think he's using the, um, he's using like some Amazon API. It's not like he gave it a credit card.

Give it a card like.

Yeah. And I think Stripe is probably the one that's going to make it happen. Yeah. Again, they literally.

There's some other companies though that are only doing agentic payments.

Yeah. There's Cross Mint. There's.

Natural Pay.

Agent. Yeah. Natural Pay. There's agentcard.sh. There's like a lot. Like, I've.

It's going to be. I mean, think about how it's a big prize.

100%. So, yeah.

It's a lot of money. Get a lot of players. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Like pre-revenue raising like the idea.

It's just, it's just easy. Yeah. Um, okay. So, so that's a prediction is AI agents get.

Commerce. Yeah. Commerce is going to be big.

Commerce is going to be big. Uh, knowledge work documents will get 10 times better. I think like, like, just the, people are going to get scared at how good they're going to get at creating like presentations and decks.

No, it's going to be really good. The next scary thing though is, and I'm low-key not a fan of, but I am at the same time, is how good image models and video models are getting. Like, Chad, like GBT Image 2 is really good. Like.

Really good.

Again, in our bubble, you can be like, "Oh, I can pick defix." Like, I can fool my mother. Like, I could take, I could get GBT Image 2 to get a picture of me and LeBron James, and I know for a fact there are people in my family who believe it. I have, I don't know if you do. I have a paraphrase now.

Um, 'cause my ex account got hacked not too long ago. So now I have a paraphrase. If anyone sounds like me and is asking you for money, ask them for the paraphrase.

Oh, like a secret code. Secret code. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's because like, again, the image gen models are getting good. The video models, like Seed Dance is getting good. Like, again, there's quirks, but like, don't look at it where it's at now. Where is it going to be in six months? And then like, voice cloning has been a thing. So there's like that part of models that scares me, and I feel like there's going to be bigger scams, bigger hacks. Um, especially on Facebook with older people. Yeah. That, that, that's going to be big, and that's scary.

It is scary for. Yeah. For whatever reason, for me, you know, I, I Midjourney in mid-2022 was my portal into AI. That's when I got, I dropped everything to to dive into AI when I was using Dolly 2 and, um, Midjourney in the early days.

And I was obsessed with image generation. It's like.

If.

You plotted my interest in image generation with how good they got, they're inversely correlated. Like, for whatever reason, now that they're so good, I don't even really think about them much. Um, for whatever. There's something like magical in the early days about like the imperfections.

Possible. Like it's just like, it's gotten so good. It's like I'm numb to it. Like I use it and it's it's one of those things like Photoshop for years, they they invented all of these different types of tools and toggles that you could do to achieve these effects.

And by the way, engineering wise, some of the most immaculate software cuz like anything to do with image, audio, like being able to like change those data, like that data, it's insane.

I'll never forget it. Like one time I had an internship and I talked to this guy and he would spend like two days on like getting the outline for one of his images and like his weekly deliverable was the cover an image on page six of this thing, you know. And and now a model replaced Photoshop. Like people, that's insane. If you can articulate the change you want, right, which gets back to like having industry knowledge and have being able to articulate what you want, you can get that effect.

Can you go on Twitter real quick? I just want to show you how I oneshotted this one image. And that's when I was like, it's it's basically over here.

So, if you click on media, uh, click on media and then there should be scroll like that image right there. That was one prompt.

Yeah. What was the like? It was just like, I I said like, make it look like I signed in the NBA for the Raptors. And I put my image in and look at that. Look at that level of detail.

Like this is insane. And this is coming. So yeah, I think this is a good theme to think about. Like this is coming for all knowledge work. Like whatever you your the feelings that you have right now that this is insane, like it's coming to presentations, it's coming. And this is not, you know, and and you know, which makes you think about tools like Gamma, you know, Gamma, um, deck maker. It's like, it's like an interface didn't do this. The model did it, right? And that's where it's going for you. Knowledge work is it%

And you know, like that's the scary thing for a lot of rappers. It's like there's no, you know, it's not the risk of OpenAI releasing an interface for design. It's the model itself being able to do it and then make all the changes. And it won't even need an interface, which is the crazy thing.

And yeah, like the fact that this was one prompt and like just like the sweat, the glare, like this is like, yeah, that's insane.

Like it's just it's incredible. And like now imagine product images and all these stuff, like like all these companies and services that existed because like this skill, like this like someone got paid a lot of money 10 years ago to create something like this. It was just incredible, right? Like now the model's been able to switch. So like anything in the knowledge work, creative work arena, like the unless you yourself are the the differentiator, if you've just been basic the whole time, average skills the whole time.

Yeah. You know, and and I think one theme for me about content creation, and this applies to you, I think when I think about content creation, is like all of the repetitive process-based things in video too, cuz this is all coming for video too. Like any like, cuz videos can be informational and like AI is going to be able to create demo videos. The more AI gets better, the more I'm just tempted to literally stream for three hours a day, do this three hours a day and clip it, make it human, wear funny, like literally just be weird.

Like, yeah, like, something that you just can't do. Like, for example, in the coding space, I'm sure you're aware, tutorials are dead.

Yeah. Nobody watches coding tutorials anymore.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Coding tutorials. Not like tool tutorials. Sitting down like you're going to learn Python today, this like line by line typing, like all those channels except one guy, Code with Anton, that's cuz he's a G. All those channels have went down.

Well, well, the people who the the the tutorials that win are the people with great personalities. You look at like Theo, Primagin, those guys, they're fun to be around. You're hanging out with them, but they're also doing the thing that you like to do.

Like yeah, they're talking smack, they're like, you know, having these type of discussions. Oh, Anthropic sucks, OpenAI's this, like like that's what people like. The relationship, like so that, thank God, won't be taken from us. At least I hope.

No, no, no, dude. I'm telling you right now, the biggest thing, like right now, I tell people who are developers who are getting afraid and they're like trying to find their path out of doing software engineering. They're like, dude, I love, man, you make content. Like, how do I get into it? I'm like, dude, just turn on your computer. Figure out the basics of a of a of a of a camera. You don't need to buy a $4,000 camera that I have after like I had a crappiest camera for a year and a half. It didn't matter. I had a mic, this like road mic that was partly broken. I got to like 500k followers. You don't need all the nice equipment, but like just learn the basics and then just like turn on the computer and just have fun and stream yourself, film it, you know, and you'll figure out like the intros if you're posting long form videos. But I think there's so much room in the market right now for people to just, because people aren't looking for tutorials per se. They're looking, they want people and they want to like understand what you can do. Like they just want to turn on their TV, sit, get some inspiration, and then they want to go mess around with it because AI is it's not as rigid as coding.

It's made and it's made it easier now. Like there are apps that I built that I used like a technology stack that I would have never picked up. I would have never used cuz like I just didn't have the domain expertise nor did I care enough to know. Like I built a mobile app the other day using Swift. Never written a line of Swift in my life. I and I don't care to learn to. Right. So it's to your point, like it's made it, AI has made it easier to start things, but like the there's still a need for community and and and chatting and information. And there's also a lot of grift online. So like if you're like just honestly like an honest person and you just share things.

It's a lot harder to grift when you're in a streaming because like, the longer you're on camera. You know, most grifters, they're on Twitter or they're on um.

The Twitter grift is insane though. I don't know if you noticed. Like, my product, product launch, and then all of a sudden the same accounts are running.

Well, I mean, I mean, you you would be surprised at how high that goes up like in terms of what companies are doing that. So like everyone is doing that right now.

Yeah. Some of these launch videos, it should be like, dude, I I don't I don't want to call them out, but there's a lot. It's standard practice to do the botting. But that's not even the grift, the grift that I'm talking. What what I'm saying is like, if you want to stand out, you want to build trust and build an audience, build a brand in this landscape, even if you're a company, like go long, do stuff like this, or just like create like super high quality content. And yeah, I think those people are going to win because AI is coming for your punch. It's going to be crazy.

Maybe an NBA player for a day.

Wow. So, like I guess like any final thoughts? Anything that jogged your memory through this episode that you want to get off your chest?

Yeah. Like I guess like like couple things I'll say like like as scary as some of these things is, it really is the best time to start. Like like whatever it is, right? Like it's a service, it's a business, it's a hobby, it's a thing like you want to learn. I don't know, whatever it is, like it's the best time. Like information is so cheap, right? There are people who spend 10 years of their life to acquire information that you and I now have access to for $20 a month. And if you don't want to pay, you get the chat GBT ads, right? Like information is so cheap. Like really what matters now is, and I hate the term cuz everyone uses it, but it's actual agency. Like like you know, searching for the information, trying to do something, it doesn't work, figuring it out, like keeping like, you know, you you keep on going. Like it is such a great time to be alive where like you and me like met online a year ago. Now I'm here at your, everyone from our company is hired from Twitter, like, you know what I mean? Like there's so much like power in like putting yourself out there. And like you don't have to be loud on YouTube, you don't have to like, you just be you. Put yourself in some sort of medium where others can see like, you know, learn, be honest, share, like, you know, I think there's so much opportunity in that. And although there's so much gloom and doom with all these things, I generally think it is the best time to like build or do or.

It's the best time to build or do. I mean, if the world, if the build is in the state that the doomers say that it's in, like you might as well build during it. Yeah. Um, and you know, whether or not it's the best time to get started, it's definitely better than uh one month from now or five months from now.

100%. And I'll be honest, I would take this time now over any other time. Like there like the amount of things that like you can learn so quickly. Like the amount of technologies you can learn, like you can build apps. You don't even have to be a programmer, right? Like sure, it might not be the best.

But the counterargument to that is like, it's just like, but if anyone can build it, do they have value?

Well, but but here's the thing. Most people won't, right? Like and and and that's the one mo people could have like agents. What if the agents just do? What if the a? What if it's just some guy who spins up 100 agents?

Then you know what? Do nothing and live the rest of your life. You know what I'm saying? Like and I had someone say that to me, like a recent grad. He's like, "Oh, but like, what if this happens? What if that?" And I'm like, "Okay, then be a bum." Like do nothing, you know? Like, but you can you can do stuff. It's really accessible. You can learn. You can make friends. You can partner up. There's so much. Like, for example, yeah, my friend, there's a lot of things he does that I don't know how to do. I'm more of a technical like, so like there's so much that can be done. It the the saddest thing that one person can do in this time is just be sad, doom, and gloom. Like there there's just so much you could do.

Yeah. And also like a different framing of it that I've because I've talked to a lot of people that I used, you know, went to college with, um, who like reach out to me because they see that I became a content creator, startup founder, etc. and like they just don't feel like they have permission. Like they're waiting for someone's permission.

And like the one thing that I just say is like, you can do it. Like whatever it is, the thing that you want to do, like if you think there's a 10-step plan, just do, just take the direct path. What is it the minimum viable thing that you could do to get you there and just you're allowed to do it and go do it. If you need to move cities, go move cities. If you need to uh buy a computer, buy a computer, figure it out. You have permission. Do whatever you want.

Like it's just it's all right there. Like the information is all right there. Like you want to learn how to do this, you want to do, like I wanted to like learn networking, right? I'm not really strong in networking. I want to learn networking. You know, before you'd have to buy a book. This I I literally went back and forth with Claude and it was telling me, "Oh, you could do this. You can do that."

I still don't know what networking is.

So, you know what I mean?

What even is that?

But there's so you can do so much now. It's just a matter of like, yo, saying like, "I'm going to do it. I'm going to try." Like being okay with like sucking at first cuz that's a lot of thing. People want to be specialists on the first go. I want to be sure a professor on the and that's just never going to happen. Um, but you know, if you have agency, if you have that dog in you, I don't think there's a better time than now. I I would I would take now versus any time in history.

Yep. Well, in this episode, we talked about all of the tools. We talked about all the tools. We talked about all the advancements. We even laid out some predictions. AI is going to get really good at everything you could possibly do on a computer. That's basically the theme. And we also gave you permission to go out and test anything you want. So that's pretty good.

You don't even need the $20 subscription. You can use the free one.

Come on. Come on. Buy the subscription.

You should watch ads. Don't watch ads. Yeah. Yeah. Don't.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't watch ads. That's not cool, man. But anyway, thank you guys for watching. It's been a pleasure. Appreciate your handshake at the end. All right. Peace, guys. Thanks. Subscribe. Like. Bye.